What Is Elon Musk's Leadership Style? 10 Traits Leaders Can Learn

0:03Welcome to Leadership DNA, a podcast for those who aspire to be a better leader. Alongside Arturo Gomez, I'm Rob Cressy. And today we've got a unique and fun episode for you where we're going to jam about Elon Musk's 10 points to his leadership style. Arturo, really excited about this. So am I. I think this is going to be a really fun episode, certainly for both of us, but I'm extremely passionate about this individual. I think that the things that he's already been able to achieve and the way that he actually does it is extraordinary.

0:44I mean, I think, you know, you're reading in this article and I think that you'd have to be literally living under a rock to not know that he is one of the, one of the more brilliant minds of our time. And I think that we're living in history right now. And so it's, it's a, it's hard to really truly understand what this individual has already done literally for humanity and how things are changing around him. And, and I think when everything is all said and done, he will be listed in a very small group of some of the most brilliant minds that have ever lived.

1:21And I love that because I love studying outliers, the people who are unique, who push the boundaries of what's possible because if they can do something like that, then crap, so can I. So first I'm going to give all 10 of these, and then we're going to do little bullet points on each one. So there's 10 points to his leadership style. Number one, he inspires his team. Number two, he sets stretch goals. Number three, he challenges the status quo.

1:49Number four, he micromanages sometimes to a fault. Number five, he hires smartly. Number six, he embraces failure. Number seven, he uses feedback to find solutions. Number eight, he values communication. Number nine, he hates meetings. And number 10, he's adaptable. So Arturo, let's go back to number one. And this one resonates so much with me. He inspires his team. What are your thoughts on this? Yeah, I mean, listen, I think one of the things too that's brought up in the article is the kind of the distinction between leadership, right? And so they have a transactional leader and then they have a transformational leader.

2:37And I think this entire podcast that you and I've been doing really has been, and we haven't really brought that subject up a lot, but the idea or the transformational leader is what we've spoken about on every podcast. That is the person that we are talking about. And, you know, it is this individual that is able to inspire, to motivate, and someone who works really closely hand in hand with their team. And, and it's, I think from an outside, from the outside looking in, you're able to actually see that he, that he does this, that he is very hands-on. He's very active and he's charismatic and, you know, he's got people marching behind him.

3:20But, you know, the idea is that this inspiration for the team really is designed around vision, having something that feels, whether it's potentially absurd to some people, but certainly a goal in mind. And, and having these, this vision of where he wants to take the company is the way that he is actually setting the pace for the organization.

3:46And I think I mentioned to you, I might've mentioned this to you in the past, but, you know, I have this one degree of separation from Elon Musk through an investor of ours that actually invested in one of our, one of our businesses, Big Game Air. And he would always talk to me about Elon before Tesla actually became a public company. This is in the, in the process of actually coming about.

4:14And one of the, oh, through one of the conversations, I asked him for just a piece of advice on, on where I was going personally. And he said, one of the things that Elon is very adamant about is that if you can conceive it, you can achieve it. And so the idea is that even if your mind in your opinion or the opinion of others is that this idea is so inconceivable, it's so far fetched to, to somebody else.

4:42If you can actually feel it, see it, then it's something that really becomes the, you are, you really make your chances of actually achieving it that much greater. So it starts with a vision and all, I think transformational leaders have to have this key attribute. So I'm going to yes. And this and actually give a real world example of how this manifests in my life.

5:07So Arturo, I mentioned to you, my word of the year as of two weeks ago is vision. So for the next 365 days or until I decided to change it, the word that is my due north is vision for everything that you're talking about. But what do you do to help manifest that vision and believe in that vision? And I've actually got a few things. Number one, on my daily planner, every day I write vision.

5:34Number two, every day I write my goals, but some of these goals, and this is actually going to blend to the next thing. Number two is he said stretch goals. Well, let me read some of these goals that I have for you to help you understand. Number one, I helped 1 million people. Number two, I spoke at a sold out arena. So when you're talking about if I can conceive it is possible.

5:59And I remember when I created the video on LinkedIn where I said I was going to help a million people. And it's one of the most nervous I have ever been in creating a piece of content. And why would that be? Because it was such an absurd thing for me that I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to do it. I don't know how I'm going to quantify it. But I do know that when you put something out there, all of a sudden, I'm now accountable to it.

6:27So I literally just went out there and said, you know what? Don't know how this is going to happen. Don't know the timeline. But I am going to help 1 million people. And then every single day in the morning, as part of my morning routine, I'm writing this and I'm reading it. And then when it comes to vision, I've got a document that I read that affirms vision on my biggest, clearest vision that I can think of.

6:52In that my vision is so big that the dreams of others can fit inside of my dreams. So for me, I believe completely in inspiring your team, completely in vision. And then number two, stretch goals. Because I want things that are so big that scare me. And I've actually got a great book about this, The 10X Rule by Grant Cardone. Absolute game changer for me. Because essentially, the concept is take whatever your goal is in 10X it.

7:20And I'll give a story on this. So for the longest time, I was like, I want to make a million dollars. And then I read The 10X Rule. And I was like, well, crap. I got to make that number $10 million. So just like that, I made it $10 million. Well, then I heard a podcast with Grant Cardone that says, well, yeah, you can 10X it. But I then make it so big that it scares me. And I was like, are you kidding me? I've got to make this number even bigger. So guess what? My number is now $50 million and $5.

7:49But think about how this happened. I started at $1 million. I read a book. My vision got stretched. And just like that, I moved to $50 million and $5. But here's the key to this. Every single day, I would read, I made $50 million and $5. Every single day to the point where I believe I am going to make $50 million and $5. Yeah.

8:14I mean, listen, I think if you look at Elon's story, look at Steve Jobs, you look at all these visionaries and these people that we hold in the highest regard. I mean, I think you could probably include Albert Einstein and various others in this thing. You have to have a remarkable pace in order to actually be able to achieve the vision. And so that's where these stretch goals come in.

8:41So, you know, where vision is, we're really not talking about the vision is, again, it should be something that is grand in scale, achievable or not achievable. It's the idea that you can get there, right? It's the idea that you can get there. So these stretch goals, I think, go in line. They're almost like a yin to the yang in terms of the way that the vision is brought out. So super important. Love that you share that with us.

9:09Is there a timeline on that goal? Well, on some of them, yes. I know that I'm supposed to put a timeline on some of these. But I'm also not so rigid on something that I want this to serve me. And I know, hey, you put a timeline on it. It is going to be better. But I don't have a timeline on it because it is my thing that I've put out there.

9:36And that's on sort of like the overarching what I'm looking to accomplish. Um, but I do want to get more specific on some of these things. Um, so let's call a little of column A, a little of column B. I actually, uh, I'm a big believer in the, in exactly what you just said, because I think that it has to be some flexibility, um, adaptability, which is on this list we'll talk about.

10:01But, um, I think it's to your point, I think that there are some things that are goals when speaking about the vision though, I don't think that it's healthy to actually create a timeline on it. I think that you have to deconstruct the vision and figure out where these little, um, benchmarks lie in terms of getting to there. And so, you know, perhaps those actually do have dates because you have to have some pace.

10:27But, um, I do believe that having some flexibility is actually important because it also allows for the inevitable to happen. Sometimes you get thrown off course. And so you gotta be, you gotta be ready to get back on course, but you know, getting back on course is also understanding that you're going to get knocked off course. And remember you want this to serve you. So I know a lot of times when putting a date on something, you can start to feel this anxiety. I'm not making enough progress. Well, how am I going to get there?

10:54And all of a sudden the thing that's supposed to help you be better and get to what you want to accomplish now is draining your mental energy because you're feeling some sort of way and about not hitting this target date when in actuality, it's just an arbitrary number that you decided to put down on a piece of paper. Right. Right. Totally. All right. So let's get to number three. And I love this one. He challenges the status quo and this resonates so much with me because I like to think that I'm a contrarian thinker.

11:23I'm both relatable and not relatable because I believe in being different, in being unique. And I don't believe that everything that is said to me or that is seen online or on TV is real or true, or this is the way that things were done. So this is the way that things have to be. No, I believe the biggest visionaries will challenge the status quo because all of a sudden what used to be the way is no longer the way. And certainly we're living in this right now.

11:53I mean, the status quo is getting shattered in virtually every industry, in our personal lives, in our business lives. So what are your thoughts on this? Dude, you said it. You said it perfectly. I mean, I think that you can't, you know, there's a visionary and not challenging the status quo actually don't, they don't go together. You know, you, you can't be a visionary without challenging the status quo. And so I think it's, I think it's really healthy.

12:21And I think that people, one of the things that I, that I would want people to take away from today, or hopefully some of the other podcasts that we've done is that don't, don't let anybody stand in the way of your dream. And if you really think, and you believe that you can get somewhere, we only have one life to live. So you might as well live it the best way. And, and that to me is, is always challenging the status quo.

12:49It's like, I don't, I don't tick without challenging that. Is there a better way to do this? Is there a faster way to do this? Is there, is there more to this than meets the eye? And so I think that's, that's part of, for me, that's part of the excitement. I would say that challenging the status quo is what brings you to, you know, to vision, right? It's so whatever the order is, it doesn't really matter. I think that the top things that we just, the three things that we've just talked about, I would kind of lump those into this idea of having a broad concept of where you want to go. And I think one key to challenging the status quo is you need to be very vigilant about what your inputs are because by design, um, the way everybody else is doing things is going to come continually be reinforced by the media and everything around you. And it's very hard when you're an outlier to find others who think like you or who can affirm what you do. So you need to be extremely vigilant about controlling your inputs so you can continue to stay on your due North because we all know it is extremely difficult to stay focused. Certainly when you've got a big vision and you're doing something that, uh, no one's really seen before. I think, listen, I mean, there's a lot of people that I think work in this in a very similar way, but my entire, my entire life, I, and maybe it's a personal chip on my shoulder and something that I've not, um, for some reason or another, not been able to shake. And sometimes maybe your reality is manufactured, but, uh, I don't think that's the case. And I, I do feel that, um, a good portion of my, it really, my entire life has been a lot of people telling me I can't do certain things. And it's not about, Hey, I don't want you to go, you know, you're not supposed to do that because that's just not what you're not supposed to do.

14:42It's, it's about people really never believing in what I was capable of doing. And so, um, and I have, I have real fond memories of this actually starting in like elementary and grade school. And so, um, I think it's, I think it's really important that people, that people understand that. And if that fuels you, because it really has fueled my entire life, my entire life.

15:10And sometimes it's about, you know, um, grabbing onto things that can keep you going that will motivate you. And for me, it's, it's been this idea that people, you can't do that, or that's, that's not possible. Well, I'm going to, I'm going to show you that it is. And, uh, and that's, that's been a big factor in how I've, uh, you know, pursued the things that I pursued. Don't allow someone's lack of belief in their self to dictate how you believe in yourself.

15:39Because so often when someone says Arturo, you can't do that. All that's really saying is they can't do that. So they believe that you can't do that. And that to me is trash. So what you can actually do is turn that into a trigger. When you see someone giving you a self-limiting belief, you go ding, ding. This is a trigger. Boom. Here comes my fuel. Nice and simple. So moving on. Uh, number four, we can zoom through this one. He micromanages sometimes to a fault.

16:06Arturo, you've got a ton of experience on dealing with large groups of people on your teams. What are your thoughts on micromanagement? I will listen. I think it's, um, I think it's a necessary evil in producing great, uh, functioning teams. And I don't think it's a bad thing. I think that it's, that it has over time through corporate, uh, America corporate diagnosis that it really has been given a bad rap.

16:34But the way that I view it is there's gotta be some handholding. Imagine if you were not micromanaging your children. Imagine if you were not there every step of the way to try to make sure that the instruction was being completely understood and well received because you spent time investing time to actually show people how you believe it should be done. Right. And so I think, I think there's a real balance.

17:04I think that, you know, to the point of, you know, kind of using the parenting as an example, there does come a point in time where you, where you say, you step back and say, I've given you your instruction. Now it's time for you to ride the bike on your own. And so there is, there's a certain amount of, um, micromanagement that I think, and it also, in my opinion, I think it also shows that you really give a sh*t, that you care deeply about what you're doing so much.

17:31So that you're, you're in the trenches, you're on the ground, you're there on the front lines, and you're just trying to make sure that everybody has exactly what they need, whether it's instruction, whether it's resource, whether it's supplies, whatever the case is to be able to succeed. So I think it's, I think if you, if you even look at, you know, um, Bezos and you talk about Steve jobs and you've read his book, none of those guys were hands-off leaders. They weren't, it just doesn't exist. You can't be great.

18:01And I would probably say that some of the sports analogies and the people that the Belichicks and the Nick Sabans and all those other guys, you don't think that they're in there in every department, working with the offensive coordinator and the defensive coordinator and picking apart things. Of course they are. Of course they are. So I think it's a good thing. Cool. So let's get to number five. And this is actually very related to this. He hires smartly. And I think the key to this is smartly because in theory, hire the right people.

18:31Hopefully you don't have to micromanage as much. Hopefully you've got the right culture. Hopefully you've got the right vision because when you hire smartly, you've got the right team or you're building the right team to help execute that vision. Yeah. I mean, I think that this goes without saying, I mean, I think you're going to, you're going to look at every, I mean, any organization, any leader, whether they distinguish themselves or others have distinguished them as great leaders. I think the idea or the concept of having strong HR and hiring, right? I think that's, I think that's a given.

19:01I think that we all, we all say that the one thing that I did take out of, out of that particular point was that he really wants to hire people that are going to challenge the status quo that are going to counter inspire him. And that are going to be people that really can gravitate towards the, towards the vision. The biggest question that I have or the challenge that I have with this is that it's correct. It's a, it's very extremely valid problem is that it still is the Holy grail.

19:31It's like being able to say that you've hired correctly in every situation. It just, that doesn't exist. So, you know, the key or the takeaway from that is that, yeah, that's a, that's an important piece to any organization that hopes to succeed. The, the question is, what are you doing to try to ensure that? What are your systems? What are your processes? Where is your vision? Where's your culture to kind of guide you along the way from not making mistakes?

19:58I mean, I've made insanely costly mistakes in the, in that process. And I've also made some real kind of just a guess and like, Hey, we're going to give this person a shot. And that person ended up being somebody that was, that was transformational in themselves, that they brought such a new energy in a, in a, in a potential to the organization that it really, that we were able to achieve these like lofty stretch goals because of that. So I think it's a given.

20:26I think it's, you know, we all, we all talk about it. People that are managing large teams. I think the difficulty lies in like being able to actually do it. And if you haven't listened to it, go back and listen to our episode about candor. I think it's going to be very relevant to the leaders and being candid with your team, as well as building a team of people who are candid and not yes, men or yes, women, because what you actually want is someone who is willing to challenge things because that's how progress happens. And actually this is a great segue because number six, he embraces failure. And I love this, but at the same time, I'm very cautious of the word failure because a lot of people think of it as an absolute. And there's a quote from Nick Saban that I love. He says, don't ever waste a failure.

21:20And what essentially he's saying is if Alabama loses a game, don't just woe is me and you wallow in it. You say, wait a second, what can we do better from this? So I believe the best leaders in the world, when they air quotes fail, that is actually not the end. That is the new beginning to say, what can we do to get better? And the more you fail and the more you do this process, the better you're going to be in the more progress you're going to make. A hundred percent.

21:50I think it's, listen, I think that there's, there's some, the people that are the true visionaries have this interesting balance between realism being pragmatic, but also being, I think really, you know, having these incredible visions and goals about where they can go. So it's, it's knowing that along the way you're going to get deviated. There's going to be issues. There's going to be problems.

22:20And the only answer to that is, okay, tomorrow's a new day. Let's get on it. Let's see where the solutions lie. You have to be solution minded. The only thing that I would add to potentially to this, to this list or potentially to this point is actually, um, an episode that you and I did it's, it's study the wins, like you study the failures. And so, um, embrace failure, you know, because I think that you have to, you have, those are the obvious things that you have to address.

22:49I also think that you should embrace and study your successes with the same type of intensity, because that has their strong potential to reinforce, reinforce behavior, um, that ultimately led to a success. So I love it. I think it's a necessary thing. I think you have to have some reality in terms of understanding that nothing is ever going to be easy. Nothing's going to ever be easy. Number seven, he uses feedback to find solutions.

23:19And I absolutely love this because so many people and leaders out there are scared of what others will say, whether it's internal, it's their customers, but really it is the gold. Anytime I'm having a conversation with a potential client or something, and I'm getting any form of feedback, I'm sitting there writing down as many things as possible because feedback is actually the greatest thing in the world. They are telling you what you can improve on.

23:47And then Arturo in our time together doing this podcast, one of the things that has stuck with me the most about you is what you said about every year, you having this feedback loop essentially from the people that you work with in terms of what you can be doing better. It's something that is both selfless as well as growth minded. And it's something that I respect so much about you because that's what great leaders do is they want feedback so that they can have better solutions because you want to be a better leader for them. Thank you, man. It's I just, I always want to challenge myself. I want to challenge myself to get, to get better. And I, and I think that, you know, if you have this preconceived notion that you're infallible or that you're, you're perfect, then you're not, you're never going to be able to provide what your team needs. Um, but I think it's, it's the feedback loop or the feedback or having that, um, in any organization is part of the culture. It's, it's making sure that people really truly believe that there is an open door policy because you can say it, uh, until you're blue in the face and it can certainly be in any handbook. But if you're a leader that really shuts people down because they want to bring suggestions or feedback to the organization, then you're not going to, you're not going to win.

25:07I mean, you know, listen, we've, we've, the, the most recent instance that I can share is really the project that I've been, uh, most heavily on in the last, you know, five or six months. And it's really bringing this restaurant, this cafe, Edie's to life. Um, right now is a time that we can't, we could not be where we are with that particular concept if it wasn't for all the feedback and the listening that we've done to certainly to our guests, but really our staff it's, and I went into this and I told them, I said, I'm not gonna, we're not gonna be able to do this without each other. And so, uh, you know, some, not everything that, uh, not every piece of feedback is put into action or put into motion, but sh*t, a lot of them have a lot of them have and inclusive of guests. And I think as somebody that you, if you're going to leave that feedback loop open, you also have to live in reality and say, are they, are they right? And putting your ego to the side because, you know, and we talked before we actually went live today that, you know, there's been some challenges that I've experienced like recently this last week. And there's just a real, uh, part of that required an introspective look and, you know, could things have actually been handled differently, better?

26:29Would that have brought, um, more success, more safety, more, um, uh, you know, positivity to the workplace? I think the answer is yes. The answer is yeah. A mistake, a mistake was made and you need to move forward. You need to move forward, but you need to correct it and you need to own it. All right. Number eight, he values communication. And one of my favorite books is relentless by Tim Grover.

26:56And one of the things he said is I'm going to give you a list of things to do. And it's not numbered one to 10 is numbered one, one, one, because they're all important. What guess what he values communication that needs to be up there at number one with inspires his team, stretch goals, challenges the status quo, because communication is a game changer for me. I actually believe communication is one of my superpowers, my ability to communicate with others in a wide variety of ways, because in business and as a leader, one of the number one things I say to everyone is the success of what we're going to do is predicated on our communication. In times in which projects have gone wrong. What is the first thing that I look at communication or a lack thereof, because it doesn't allow the transfer ideas or the feedback loop or the accountability and the processes.

27:51You have to value communication so much and you can't just be a leader sitting in a silo looking up from above and hoping everybody else does it. Communication is just so important. What are your thoughts on this? Yeah, I mean, I think I agree. I think it's part of that culture, the idea and the concept that everybody has a voice. I loved what he what was mentioned in this article about this particular point that he insists that it doesn't matter what part of the ladder you are on for the organization. If you see a problem or you have a solution to a problem that you need to bring it to the attention literally to his attention, he he he really and this has been public before that, you know, he's made adjustments and shifts because he heard somebody somebody from the assembly line talking about a problem.

28:44And I think literally lost his mind that this this problem had been festering and been part of, you know, this telephone game that exists in a large scale organization that they told so and so that that's the person told so and so that person told so and so, but nothing was ever really done. And so I think he actually sent out an internal memo that reflects exactly what's in this article that he literally says, I don't really care who you report to.

29:14If you find a problem or you sense there's a solution to a particular problem or an idea, you got to bring it to me. So, you know, I think there's I think that's extremely interesting and I think it requires an organization of people that, again, are able to to conceptually put their ego on the sidelines because, you know, in in my early days and I've seen over time that people like to feel that there's rank in order to how things get communicated up the ladder. But I like this kind of democratizing the whole thing and just saying, listen, it's our success is all going to be determined by the fact that we just are great communicators and we're solution based people. All right. Number nine, he hates meetings. And I really enjoyed this one because I am not someone who has excessive meetings.

30:10One of the things that I learned along my journey is I kept my meetings to 20 minutes when possible. Why? Because I want to set a culture of candor in brevity and getting to the point because so often there's a lot of love and filler. And I'm not in the corporate world. I'm having run my own business for the last eight years, but I used to be in the corporate world. So I certainly understand.

30:36And I have friends who are like, oh, man, I've just been in meetings all day. And for me, I look at it. Time is my most valuable asset. And I have no time to waste in my entire life because as you said, we only get one life. So for me, meetings are about efficiency in moving things forward. I'm curious your thoughts on meetings. I agree with exactly what you said. I also agree with what his point is in this article.

31:04I think that I've been somebody who's been caught in this concept that meetings about meetings kind of thing. And I think there is a balance point. I think that if there's something that really is urgent that requires a meeting, then you take it. I do see myself being a lot less. I think this year has actually helped that.

31:30There's a lot less face-to-face commitment in time suck, certainly because of where we are from a COVID standpoint. But I think I've also evolved where not everything requires a meeting. I do like to do check-ins with people. And a lot of that I do on an individual basis. So it doesn't require getting 10 people together. If I see somebody that I have something that I particularly want to coach them or I just want to check in with them, then I just do it one-on-one.

31:58And we still have meetings probably. I would say there's a good balance right now. But I agree. I think that they can be excessive in terms of time waste. And I think one thing that's extremely important is preparation. If you're going to be having meetings, then I expect everyone to show up and know what's going to happen instead of fumbling around and be like, oh, I wasn't ready for this. Boom. You need this laser precision if you're going to be doing meetings.

32:27It's why when I have calls with people who work with me, I say right at the beginning, what is your intention of this call? Because I'm not about to waste time of, oh, I don't know. I was waiting for you to bring something to my table. No, no. This is a moving forward meeting. This is not a we're trying to figure out what to do next. Right. I love it. Moving forward meeting. That's what it should be. And number 10, he's adaptable. And this is something everybody needs to be in.

32:56Certainly this year, I think adaptability is one of the things that people learned. They're forced to learn adaptability one way or another. But adaptability is something from an entrepreneurship journey is baked into the DNA because not everything is going to be puppy dogs and rainbows every day. What worked yesterday may not work today. So you need to be adaptable enough because guess what?

33:22The market also changes because when COVID hit six months ago, I never thought I would say these words. Sports didn't exist. And all of a sudden I realized I had a blind spot in my business. So much of what I did was based around the sports industry. I'm the host of shows. I create content and fan engagement for sports fans. And then all of a sudden that all went away.

33:49And I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I didn't know. I didn't see this coming, but like, this is no longer there. So you're forced to adapt. And what I did is I doubled down on my systems and processes to say, listen, I'm never going to allow something to take away my livelihood again. And maybe it's not industry specific, but now I was able to adapt by understanding my value and how I can help others outside of the sports world.

34:17So I'm curious on your end, your thoughts on adaptability. I think it's, I mean, obviously I think it's critical. I think it goes to the point of, you know, accepting or embracing failure and understanding that the journey is long. I mean, there is no success story that happens, literally happens overnight. There's always a background story to it. And you have to be, as a leader, you have to be adaptable and you have to be able to re-engage your team with potentially a new look at the goal. And so I think that that's really important. I think, you know, if you look at Elon Musk, for example, I think you can really look at how his company has turned around over the last, in the last year and a half, two years. I mean, there was a point, I think maybe even two years ago or even a year and a half ago that people were saying that the company wasn't going to make it, you know?

35:10And so there were benchmarks that he had not achieved and investors were losing faith. And then all of a sudden, this guy, you hear stories of him sleeping on the factory floors and literally he's there for, you know, 150 hours a week. And so he was able to become adaptable, create solutions, motivate his team. And now it's one of the highest valued car, it's the highest valued car company in the world. I love it.

35:39And once again, remember what we said earlier, other people saying he can't do this. What's going on? The company is going to fail. He didn't allow that to seep into him. He didn't believe it. And boom, one of the greatest leaders, if not the best leader we're seeing right now in the world. Arturo, I really enjoyed this conversation. What is your action item or takeaway from this? I think the takeaway is that, you know, there's a lot of pieces.

36:05Again, there's a lot of pieces to creating a successful business and creating a success story. And there's a lot of components that go into actually being a great leader. And so to me, the transformational concept of leadership is a big deal because all these points that we talked about fit neatly into that. I think just vision is also a big part of the conversation that we had today that dream big and understand that you can't achieve the things that you want in life unless your dream is so big. It has to be almost larger than what you can ever even imagine. So that's the one thing that I would tell people to have as a takeaway. Don't let anybody interfere with these dreams that you have. And regarding dreams, read the book, The Power of Consistency.

36:59I've mentioned this numerous times on this podcast because essentially what it talks about is we spend so much time in our lives doing so many things, but how much time are we spending reaffirming our dreams, regoing over it? Have you even written down what your dreams are? Simple things that you can do to make that vision more clear. Because if you can give me a piece of paper that says, Rob Arturo, here's what my dreams are. Boom.

37:24That is someone who is on a better path to making those dreams happen. And for me, I've got an action item. So we had Elon Musk's leadership style and he gave 10 different bullet points. I'm curious to hear what would be your bullet points of your leadership style? Maybe you give us three, maybe you give us five, maybe you give 10. Whether you want to send it to Arturo and I, or you want to use this as a LinkedIn post, I think there's a ton of value in you writing down some of your bullet points of your leadership style and then let us know and let the rest of the world know, because I would be very curious to hear what is on your mind.

Transcript cleaned up for reading. Sign-off trimmed.