Leading leaders means guiding people who are strong leaders themselves. It takes putting your ego aside, knowing the business and its vision deeply, and understanding how each person wants to be managed. Lead by example, align their goals with the company's, give first, and keep developing yourself, because the role is a lifelong commitment.
- Leading other leaders is one of the pinnacles of leadership, and few people do it well.
- Put your ego aside. Strong leaders resist micromanagement, so learn how each one wants to be led.
- Know the vision and strategy cold, and understand each leader's personal goals too.
- You become a leader of leaders by being one: daily learning, consistency and commitment over years.
What does leading leaders mean?
There are levels to the game of business and leadership, and leading people who are already leaders is one of the pinnacles. My co-host Arturo Gomez has led teams for 25 years, and he calls it a very difficult task. Few people do it well, because it takes a tremendous ability to put your ego aside. Strong leaders resist being micromanaged, and too much authority creates conflict fast.
You become a leader of leaders by being one.
What qualities does a leader of leaders need?
- A student of the business Advanced knowledge of every part of the organization, its vision and its industry.
- Empathy A feel for the psychology of each person, including how they want to be managed.
- Leading by example Living the standard you ask of others, until it sits in your DNA.
- Selflessness A focus on the greater good for all, and the willingness to give first.
Leading by example is where it starts for me. When other leaders see you living the standard, mutual respect grows, the same way it does when you are building trust with your team.
Do you have to be the smartest person in the room?
Arturo says to position yourself as the smartest person in the room, and he means something specific. Have a firm grasp of the vision, have answers ready for the challenges ahead, and contribute to strategy. That takes real commitment to studying your industry and your people.
Leave room for what you still have to learn. Stay proactive, engaging and open. Add vulnerability too. I am far from perfect, and I am willing to say so.
How do you lead leaders without micromanaging them?
Read how each leader wants to be managed, then deliver on that.
| The area | Leading with authority | Leading leaders |
|---|---|---|
| Control | Directs every move | Gives room and avoids micromanaging |
| Credibility | Rests on the title | Rests on knowing the vision and strategy |
| Goals | Company goals only | Company goals plus each leader's own |
Arturo saw how delicate this gets while one of his businesses scaled its org chart. A returning hire came back in a role below the one she once held. The leader now in her old role had to be on his P's and Q's and create a healthy, non-threatening space for her. That is advanced level leadership.
How do you align your goals with the leaders you lead?
Strong leaders live the company's vision and goals. They walk it and talk it. They also understand the personal goals of each person they lead. Skip that step and the two sides miss each other.
Arturo describes the role as holding the company vision intact while helping each leader get where they want to go. That requires you to give first. Take the first step or two and extend the olive branch.
I think of it like throwing a party. You are the one who brings everybody together and says we can all be better if we show up a certain way, starting with the standard you set for yourself.
How do you become a leader of leaders?
Arturo and his business partners find that most strong candidates have five to seven of the ten key attributes. Finding all ten is like finding a unicorn. To spot future leaders, Arturo watches for a hunger, a passion, a commitment to the organization, or a willingness to learn. Those signal gold underneath the surface.
You can design yourself into that unicorn. I started at zero more than a decade ago, moving from corporate Rob to entrepreneur, coach and leader Rob. First I learned what self-awareness was. Then I found a growth mindset and became a voracious reader. Two simple habits built the rest.
- Audit your inputs. Look at what you read and consume. I walk the dog with a podcast, an audiobook or good vibes music, and I start the day reading.
- Run it every day. A 30 minute reading routine, once a day for a week, a month, a year, then ten years. Look back and you see who you have become.
Arturo's path ran through books too. As a kid he felt a talent for communicating and swaying people. For 20 years he read on leadership, courage and the psychology of leading people, and he leads with more compassion and empathy than he did in his 20s and 30s.
As I developed and as I got older, I realized that this power came with a tremendous amount of responsibility.
Arturo Gomez, Episode 65
Is leading leaders right for you?
Audit why you want it. The right answer is that you want to improve other people's lives. Arturo doubts a title change and extra cash are enough fuel to carry you. The role asks you to be on almost 24/7, and for many leaders it becomes their life's work. What you learn becoming that person stays with you for good.
How does AI change leading leaders?
Staying the smartest person in the room now includes AI. Go first and learn the tools yourself, because the leaders you lead will look to you for a view on strategy. About 20 hours of hands-on practice gets you going. Let AI draft and keep the judgment human. Start with AI for leaders.
Do this today
- Audit your why. Write down why you want to lead leaders, and check that it centers on improving other people's lives.
- Audit your inputs. Pick one book on leadership and read it for 30 minutes tomorrow morning.
Listen to the episode
Leading Other Leaders
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Questions people ask
What is the hardest part of leading other leaders?
Putting your ego aside. Strong leaders resist micromanagement, so you have to learn how each person wants to be managed and deliver that.
What qualities make someone a leader of leaders?
Deep knowledge of the business, empathy, leading by example, vulnerability and selflessness, backed by years of commitment and consistency.
Can you learn to lead leaders?
Yes. Arturo Gomez calls these skills achievable, coachable and developable. Rob Cressy built his through daily reading and personal development over more than a decade.
How do you lead a former leader who now reports to you?
Create a healthy, productive and non-threatening space for them, and raise your own game so your leadership earns their respect.
Full transcript
Episode 65: Leading Other Leaders
Welcome to Leadership DNA, a podcast for those who aspire to be a better leader. Alongside Arturo Gomez, I'm Rob Cressy. Today's topic, leading other leaders. And Arturo, there's levels to the game of business and leadership, and one of the pinnacles is being a leader of other leaders. You're one of those people, so am I. So what is the DNA of being someone who leads other leaders?
I think the DNA of somebody who leads other leaders, well, it's a very difficult task and there's not a lot of people actually out there that can do this well because it takes a tremendous ability to put your ego aside to be able to do it. You have to be really a student of whatever it is, the industry that you're in particularly because in order to lead other people, especially high performers, you have to essentially, you got to try to position yourself as being the smartest person in the room.
And what I mean by that is that you should have advanced knowledge, a good enough understanding of all aspects of the business and all aspects of the things that you're trying to lead in order to be able to do that. And so that requires a tremendous amount of commitment to studying your industry, studying your people, having great empathy.
And also this idea or this concept of not trying to bring too much authority into the picture because you're essentially going to create some conflict there because strong leaders certainly don't want to be micromanaged. And so you have to be able to find that balance of almost a psychology of really understanding how that person wants to be managed and be able to try to deliver on that for them.
But listen, it's not, I mean, I'm going through it right now. I'm one of the businesses that I'm involved in. We are scaling up our org chart and that requires, we're hiring some talented people. That's kind of an exciting time. But in one particular instance, we have an individual that's getting brought into the organization that actually was part of the organization in a past time who had a higher role than the person that's currently occupying this person's former role.
So she's coming in underneath the role that she essentially had in a previous time. And so it really is going to require the individual that's currently holding the position to make sure that he's on his P's and Q's and that he's really pushing the envelope in order to be able to create a space, a healthy, productive space for this other person to come into the organization and for them to feel, you know, create a non-threatening type of environment.
So not an easy thing to do. It requires some advanced level leadership in order to be able to sit at a table and, you know, lead other leaders. Yeah, and I love this conversation because this is something that I uniquely have as a gift. And the way that I think about this is number one, you lead by example.
So the way that you're a leader of leaders starts with this is who I am. This is how I live. This is how I lead. It's it's in the DNA of who you are. Number two becomes greater good for all. So I like what you said about commitment and being the smartest person in the room. But being the smartest person in the room doesn't mean that I necessarily know everything because part of this is going to be being proactive, being engaging, but being open to things.
I also think there's an element of vulnerability to this. So as a leader, I know that by no means am I perfect. And I'm willing to share this in a way that many people likely aren't. And at the same time, I've done this on such a level of mastery that there's an element of respect that comes here.
So I'm someone who is a community builder among other things. So from one on one coaching to building communities of hundreds and thousands of people. It's like, how do you dot dot dot? One of the things that is part of being a leader of leaders is almost the way that you would think about throwing a party. Like, you're the guy who brings everybody together.
So you're known as the guy. It doesn't make you better than anybody else, but it makes you the person who says, listen, we can all be better if we all show up a certain way. Here's the standard for how I can show up. Not perfect at this. So part of that is a mutual respect and trust that comes from that.
You see someone who's doing it and living it. And you're like, listen, I want to be a part of that guy's world because I see the way that they lead. I see the way that their selfless and so much of what we talk about in Leadership DNA in this podcast is a part of this. But it is really to me the the essence and the way of being in how you see you being the best.
And that can actually be the best for everybody else. Yeah, 100 percent. Yeah. And I think when I say this idea of being the smartest person in the room, it really is more centered around what the focus is of the organization, having a firm grasp on the vision. But but also understanding, having answers and responses for challenges or, you know, potentially challenges that may arise and to be able to contribute towards strategy towards the future.
And so those are those are really, you know, like I said, very difficult things. And, you know, I've been, you know, been having quite a few conversations about leadership and what leadership looks like with my business partners, because as we're again growing this org chart, you know, we're realizing that you're never it's going to be very rare to find somebody that has all the attributes, all the key attributes that you really want.
It's almost it's almost it's like finding a unicorn. They do exist. But you're going to find somebody that's got five or six of ten and then you're going to find another person got seven of ten. And but it's those three critical pieces that they're missing that really, you know, are potentially holding them back in some way, shape or form.
But strong leaders are going to understand the vision, the goals of an organization. They're going to understand that at the highest level, they're going to be able to live it like you said, they're going to live, breathe, walk and talk. And then they're also going to, I think, understand the goals in the vision of the individuals that they're trying to lead, because if they don't.
They will miss each other. And so when you really understand what the person next to you, behind you, in front of you or whatever is trying to accomplish and you're willing to assist them in getting there, but still holding the, you know, the vision and the goals of the company. In tact, then there's a lot that really can be accomplished because it requires a little bit of give from, you know, I was I would suggest, you know, it takes it takes leaders.
This concept of giving taking the first step or first two steps in order to really accomplish anything because they have to give. You have to have the olive branch extended and you have to want to be able to give it in order to be able to get more. And so that's that's a big part of it. Yeah, the gift part is a huge part of all this.
And this is where the selflessness comes in and Arturo, there's two things that you said. Number one, commitment. So this is this to me is paramount of everything. Commitment and consistency sort of go together because naturally let's move this to how do you design yourself in being the unicorn? Because we are those unicorns when you're like someone doesn't necessarily have all of those things.
But then I look at you and I in a non selfless manner, it's like this was by design that we've created ourselves into the unicorn. So what does that look like? And for me, it has been a decade plus of all in commitment to personal and professional development all day, every single day for more than 10 years straight.
And not in a scarcity manner, but my dreams and goals and vision. And you talked about aligning the vision is so strong and so clear because among other things, I know what I don't want in my life because of the way that I'd previously lived. But also where I want to go, what I want to create and who I want to do it with.
Because this creates me showing up in a certain way where you can feel my commitment. You can feel my energy. I've got the systems and processes because one, I've lived this and experienced this on a daily basis to system scale. So I've actually designed it so other leaders can learn how they can create them in themselves and for their team.
And I'm curious from your perspective over your journey, how do you see the creation of whether yourself is the unicorn or someone who says, I want to be or I am a leader of leaders, even though I don't think I ever woke up one day and is like, Rob, you're going to be a leader of leaders. It's you become that by being it.
So what did that look like for you in terms of the development or growth? Yeah, the development of someone who sits there and says, I want to elevate myself to not just being that I've got 10 things and I'm missing three. But you are that unicorn. You got to really want it. You got to really want it.
I mean, and to your point, listen, there are there are leaders that are currently existing in organizations that have no clue that their path or their future is destined for them to lead people. And so I do think that there's certain DNA attributes that people are born with and certain levels of consciousness that people have to be able to mature.
Because in order to do the things that are required for leadership, you have to have such a insane control over yourself, your emotions, your actions, the levels of commitment from your health to the time you work and your exercise. All that stuff is plays a factor into it. Your understanding and your digesting of the organization's goals and the visions and to be able to create that strategy and create that path.
All all very difficult things. They are achievable. They are coachable. They can be developed for me. I think it's. You know, I think I was I know growing up as a young, you know, as a young kid, I always I always in my mind felt like I had a specific talent to communicate and that I could sway people.
Sometimes, you know, maybe into things that we probably shouldn't have been doing. But, you know, as I developed and as I got older, I realized that this power came with a tremendous amount of responsibility. And so I found happiness in trying to lead people to these common goals that were either set by myself or the group or the organization.
I also found a lot of happiness in developing other people and seeing them achieve their goals and arrive at their happy place. All these things continue to contribute to kind of this emotional currency that I was getting along the way. And it it forced me to, you know, to start diving in trying to educate myself. So over, you know, over the last 20 years, you know, the only thing that I really love or enjoy reading is books on leadership, books on courage, books on, you know, how, you know, psychology of of leading people.
You know, the all of that is stuff that I've consumed over the years and really been a very kind of voracious student towards trying to adapt it and learn it. And a lot of those things that I've read along the way have contributed to who I am today. I think a lot of it was in me and I didn't actually realize it and it was flushed out.
And then a lot of it was caused, you know, gave cause to action. Right. So why don't you try doing X, Y and Z and to see what the result is. So the leader that I am today is is is a very different leader than I was in my 20s and even in my 30s. It's there's a lot more efficiency.
I think there's a lot more compassion. There's a lot more empathy in who I am today than who I was in my 20s and my 30s. And so the evolution is is continuous. It's as you continue to grow older, you should continue to evolve and continue to learn. And leadership is definitely one of those aspects that that should continue to evolve.
Yeah, you said something that is so important to when I look at how this was created in my world. You don't just pop out like this because I started at zero more than a decade ago. I've lived multiple lives of corporate Rob to entrepreneur and coach and leader Rob. And it was going to zero where number one, I learned what self-awareness was crazy.
I could go three decades of my life without realizing that. Number two, the growth mindset. And this is the thing that unlocked everything for me being a voracious reader and learner on what I don't know this hunger. So I look at one of the greatest things that have ever benefited myself. It is the ability to create a reading routine for 30 minutes a day.
Once I understood that, I've read hundreds of books which have helped me create the mindsets, the perspectives, the habits, the routines that I then live, that I then coach, that I then train on of how do you become better? Well, you become someone who is always looking to get better and you become hungry for these things. So there's very simple things that you can do that will create you into the unicorn.
Number one, audit your inputs. What are you reading? What are you consuming? So I think about I walk the dog, I'll have a podcast in or an audio book or good vibes music and I start the day with reading and then it's the power of consistency. You do this once a day every single day for a week, a month, a year for 10 years and I didn't pop out like this.
It's all of a sudden you look back over a decade, you're like wow, look at these things I've been doing and creating that naturally elevate yourself to the leader of leaders. So this is both by design as well as becomes part of who you are because of what you are doing to create yourself as this. Yeah, it's a hard choice to make.
You can say that you want to be this individual but I think I mentioned before but it comes with a tremendous amount of responsibility and it's you have to be on almost 24 seven if you really truly are looking to be a leader of leaders essentially. But it's a path for a lot of people that they're destined to do it and it's a labor of love.
I mean, it's what they want to do and that's I think it's pretty evident for me when I meet individuals that really are going to become tremendous leaders. There's one or two qualities that are there that are sticking out that you can identify that you're starting to see whether it's a hunger or a passion to commitment to the organization or just a willingness to learn.
Those are things that I think clearly give an indication as to maybe there's some gold underneath the surface there. Yeah, so now let's move to the action of the takeaway and Arturo I love what you just said there because for me this is a mindset, a lifestyle in a way of being and on my hat right here it actually says 24 seven 24 seven and I would this is how I want to live because why would we choose anything other than a path for greatness where if we can design every single aspect of our lives why would I not choose to be the best in all areas of my life?
And it's both very simplistic but as you said it is a massive responsibility and it's a reason why so many people do not go down that path for greatness. But guess what I'm all in let's create the best life that we possibly can so I am going to do everything that I can not in a scarcity way but in a way of love and in creation of who you want to be what you want to do the people that are around you the things that you create in your life this goes back to our why our hunger of being that person so for me if you've got that inside of you I've actually got two things that can help you number one a free resource my personal growth and development and life optimization program that I take my one-on-one coaching clients through you can go to built for the game.com it is a series of videos that you or your team can watch it'll transform your life and help you become one of those unicorns on the path for greatness that if you want and then recently I launched a new community called unlimited you can go to creating unlimited.com and it's a room for high performers and leaders who want to grow their business and life together the people who are a part of this are 15 out of 10 they're the unicorns so if you're one of those people go to creating unlimited.com we would love to have you part of our community Arturo what about you what's your action item or takeaway? I think the action item is leadership is it's not for everybody I think the audit is you know what is your goal? What is your goal chasing this idea of continued development and the real goal or the right answer should be that you really are trying to contribute and enhance or improve other people's lives if your idea of leadership is hey I want that title change and I'm looking for that additional cash or that's not that's our answer that's an answer we I think we all want career advancement and we all would like to be rewarded for that. I don't know that that answer fits into the criteria of why you should chase leadership I don't know that that's enough fuel to keep you focused on actually achieving the goals that are required to become a fantastic leader so I think really just making sure that you audit and that you understand that the commitment is it becomes a lifelong commitment. You're signing up to continue to do something because once you reach a certain level there is no relinquishing the power that you've obtained it's you are forever going to be in this space and there will be people whether in your organization outside of your organization your neighbor the person on the street that you're going to be compelled to help because you're now in this space and so be careful what you wish for and just make sure that you fully understand what you're signing up for but I think for a lot of people that have done it and they continue to do it it's your life's work.
Transcript cleaned up for reading. Sign-off trimmed.